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MessaggioInviato: gio set 28, 2006 08:37 
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Iscritto il: mer set 22, 2004 18:19
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Località: Norwold - Sesto S.G. - Corbetta
Skaan Natsaclanee ha scritto:
Apostolo di pace non mi è mai piaciuto; :wink:


non ho detto che mi piacia ma resta il fatto che è cmq intoccabile! :wink:

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MessaggioInviato: sab feb 10, 2007 17:22 
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Iscritto il: mer giu 29, 2005 22:26
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Sollecitato ad utilizzare questo precedente thread, rinnovo qui la mia richiesta...
yrinthakis ha scritto:
Ho pensato di chiedere aiuto a voi, o eccelsi maestri dell'arte della Build, di proporre qualche idea, chicca o combo simpatica per un personaggio che comincerà a giocare come warlock di 1° livello e con 80 punti (sì, 80 punti!!!) da distribuire tra le caratteristiche (unico limite il massimale di 18 iniziale a cui applicare poi eventuali modifiche razziali)...
Sarebbe cosa buona esser utile sin dal primo livello, per poi divenire micidiale con l'avanzare dei livelli...
Altri limiti, l'uso (almeno entro i primi livelli, poi cercherò di convincere il master ad esser un po' più accondiscendente) per la build dei tre manuali base e dei 4 Complete, allineamento possibilmente buono (al massimo neutrale) e l'eventualità di dover sopperire alla mancanza di un ladro nel gruppo (forse saremo a corto anche di un chierico, ma con una bacchetta di cure e un buon punteggio in Utilizzare Oggetti Magici già dovrei provvedere egregiamente)...

Idee, gente?


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 Oggetto del messaggio:
MessaggioInviato: sab feb 10, 2007 17:28 
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Iscritto il: dom lug 17, 2005 23:02
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Mi posso mettere al lavoro, al momento non ho nulla da fare. Se termino con qualcosa di buono, lo posto. :wink:

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MessaggioInviato: lun feb 12, 2007 09:30 
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Iscritto il: ven set 03, 2004 23:47
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idem come sopra, ma probabilmente non in giornata.
80 puti messi con valore 1=1 o col metodo canonico dei punti stabilito dal manuale del master?

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MessaggioInviato: mar feb 13, 2007 20:23 
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Iscritto il: mer set 22, 2004 18:19
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Località: Norwold - Sesto S.G. - Corbetta
Riguardo al warlock, non è una di quelle classi che mi ispira particolarmente e quindi non ho mai pensato a una particolare build...
se dovessi proprio farne un personaggio credo che l'ideale sarebbe dargli una delle classe di prestigio che hanno inventato appositamente per il Warlock sul Complete Mage...ce ne sono 2 o 3 veramente belle e caratterizzanti...

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MessaggioInviato: ven feb 16, 2007 16:01 
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Iscritto il: dom lug 17, 2005 23:02
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La mancanza di tempo (Domenica parto :P ) mi ha impedito di formulare un lavoro preciso... Ma non mi son dimenticato di questo personaggio. Per questo, fornisco alcuni link utili. Molto utili. :wink:

The Warlock's Equipment Locker
Warlock Theme Builds
Warlock Information Compilation

Spero che possano essere d'aiuto. :sisi:

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15 03 2010 - Crolla un'istituzione di Valm Neira
Azrael The Dark rimuove la sua firma sovradimensionata.

La conoscenza è potere, il potere corrompe.
Studia.


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MessaggioInviato: ven feb 16, 2007 20:08 
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Iscritto il: gio feb 10, 2005 15:33
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Oh Magnati delle build....vi chiedo consulenza!Sto cercando di buildare un nuovo personaggio un Monaco solo che non l'ho mai usato come classe!Per cui tutto quello che mi è venuto in mente è di farlo Umano tigre mannara con voto di povertà L-B con livelli da Kensai....questo sarebbe uno spunto voi oh eccelsi cosa fareste?
Grazie in anticipo :)


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MessaggioInviato: ven feb 16, 2007 20:14 
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Iscritto il: gio dic 15, 2005 16:15
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vorrei un consiglio per un personaggio con 5 lv a disposizione a inizio campagna.
pensavo ad un arcere boschifo, una spece di cecchino, quindi mi sono appropinquiato verso un halfling cuoreforte 1° war/2 °Ranger /2°arcere dei boschi
i Tiri caratteristica sono in ordine 12,18,14,12,10,9 con i bonus razziali applicati.

Talenti:
seguire tracce,tiro rapido, tiro preciso, ombra, tiro ravvicinato, iniziativa migliorata

Qualcuno ha qualche consiglio per renderlo più forte o più giocabile o anche più caratteristico?

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ebbbene si ho tolto la mia firma storica :sese:
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i dadi sono sempre utili a chi gioca a D&D e Vampire


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 Oggetto del messaggio:
MessaggioInviato: sab feb 17, 2007 00:22 
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Iscritto il: ven set 03, 2004 23:47
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così su due piedi, il mio pensiero è che il monaco vale 20 livelli puri.
se riesci a fare pure il santo poi hai svoltato.
in alternativa alla classe pura, il "perfect one" su Dragon e Dungeon mi dicono sia una forza

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MessaggioInviato: sab feb 17, 2007 19:44 
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Iscritto il: dom lug 17, 2005 23:02
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Per quanto riguarda il monaco... Le tue scelte sono eccellenti, ma non lo farei Tigre Mannara... Per me è solo uno spreco. :wink: Il kensai è ottimo, comunque. Ed un monaco/kensai povero fa molto male, anzi forse vorrei dire principalmente che chiunque altro gli fa davvero poco male. :wink:
Se però ti volessi stravolgere un po' il concetto, potresti fare un monaco/psion/fist of zuoken. Fortissimo, nulla da dire. Un Neo in carne ed ossa. :wink:

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15 03 2010 - Crolla un'istituzione di Valm Neira
Azrael The Dark rimuove la sua firma sovradimensionata.

La conoscenza è potere, il potere corrompe.
Studia.


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MessaggioInviato: lun feb 19, 2007 15:32 
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Iscritto il: ven dic 22, 2006 18:52
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Località: un pò qua, un pò la..spesso in provincia di Mantova...
Azrael,non è che potresti postare qui il coboldo con tutte le caratteristiche a 20010? Perchè l'avevo trovato da qualche altra parte ma non mi ricordo più dove... :oops:


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MessaggioInviato: lun feb 19, 2007 15:56 
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Iscritto il: ven set 03, 2004 23:47
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al momento il sito della Wizard è down. a casa dovrei cmq avercela sull'HD.

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MessaggioInviato: mar feb 20, 2007 19:51 
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Iscritto il: mer set 22, 2004 18:19
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Località: Norwold - Sesto S.G. - Corbetta
a mio avviso il monaco col voto di povertà è uno dei PG + inattaccabbili e forti soprattutto se lo lasci umano in modo da ottenre il voto di povertà già al primo livello (per via del talento bonus da umano)...
Poi ogni multicalsse x monaco è semrpe una buona scelta se fa salire la progressione a colpire, i danni del monaco, ecc...
Consiglio di dare un occhio alle tecniche di arti marziali presenti sul manuale delle Orientals Adventure che permetto9no di aggiungere tecniche devastanti al monaco (tipo la combo che ti fa fare danni come se fossi di taglia + grande)...

Riguardo all'halfling arciere mi sembra un ottima scelta! ;) che altro vuoi dalla vita?! al massimo puoi dopo aggiungere la CdP del Order of the Bow e mixarle un po assieme...

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MessaggioInviato: mer feb 21, 2007 08:28 
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Iscritto il: ven set 03, 2004 23:47
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trovato.

Cita:
The most powerful character. EVER.
________________________________________
Here is the example build I promised over on this thread: Incentive to Play a Kobold

It showcases the Manipulate Form ability being abused like crazy, and breaks all CO records currently held. The Manipulate Form ability is explained as much as it can be without violating the CoC in the Incentive thread.

Behold Pun-pun, the mighty kobold.

Pun-pun, male Kobold Egoist 12

1. Psicrystal Affinity, Overchannel
2.
3. Earth Sense
4.
5. Psionic Body
6. Earth Power
7.
8.
9. Metamorphic Transfer
10. Expanded Knowledge (Schism)
11.
12. Extend Power

Pun-pun uses Metamorphosis and Overchannel to transform into a Sarruhk (Serpent Kingdoms). He shares Metamorphosis with his psicrystal so that it transforms into a snake (tiny viper). Using Metamorphic Transfer, Pun-pun uses the Sarruhk's supernatural ability, Manipulate Form, to give his psicrystal the Manipulate Form ability (since the psicrystal is now a snake, it qualifies as a Scaled One).

Pun-pun dismisses his Sarruhk form, and orders the psicrystal to grant him the Manipulate Form ability, using Manipulate Form of course. Since Pun-pun is a pathetic Kobold, he qualifies as a Scaled One. Pun-pun now has the strongest ability in the game.

First things first... boosting ability scores:

In one day, Pun-pun can boost his strength to about 20,000. He does this by changing size using Manipulate Form. Each time Pun-pun grows to Colossal, he gains a +36 size bonus to strength. He then increases his psicrystal's strength score to match his own. Pun-pun then reverts to normal size, and increases his psicrystal's size to Colossal. His psicrystal's already impressive strength increases due to the size increase, and it transfers this new, higher strength score to Pun-pun. The transfers to strength are permanent, but they can continue doing it. Each time, the Strength increases by +36. Within a day, Pun-pun can have a strength score hovering around 20,000 (assuming no sleep).

*In order for this to work, Pun-pun's psicrystal would have to be a Scaled One each time it was affected by or it used Manipulate Form. This can be handled one of two ways. The first way is to consider that once the psicrystal is altered using Manipulate Form, it is considered a Scaled One. This isn't so much backed by the books to my knowledge, so I opt'ed for the second method. Which is to use Bestow Power/Schism cheese for crazy power points to continue manifesting Extended Metamorphosis on the psicrystal.

So, Pun-pun's strength is 20,010 (for a nice, even modifier) after a little more than a day. Now to increase the other scores. Within the next day, Pun-pun will have all of his other ability scores matching his strength.

First, Pun-pun uses Manipulate Form to grant himself the Bellflower Tattoo of the Tattooed Monk. The Bellflower Tattoo allows Pun-pun to add his Charisma modifier as an enhancement bonus to any of his ability scores. Then Pun-pun grants himself the Void Release ability of the Void Disciple. Void Release allows him to use his highest ability score modifier in place of a lower one. See where this is going? Pun-pun uses Bellflower, but instead of adding his Charisma bonus as an enhancement bonus to an ability score, he adds his strength bonus. Since his strength modifier is now +10,000 (after a day's worth of tedious sizing and re-sizing), he can grant any of his ability scores a +10,000 enhancement bonus. And when he does, he permanently increases his familiar's corresponding score to match it. So, let's say he adds +10,000 to Charisma. The psicrystal now has a charisma of 10,010, permanently. After Pun-pun dismisses the effects of the Bellflower tattoo, his psicrystal permanently increases Pun-pun's charisma to 10,010. Pun-pun uses the Bellflower tattoo again, to Charisma, and increases his psicrystal's Charisma by another 10,000 (using strength instead of charisma again of course). The Psicrystal's charisma is now 20,010, and it increases Pun-pun's charisma to match it. Repeat this process with each other ability score.

*Note, when under the effects of Metamorphosis, the psicrystal does have a Constitution score. So this can be done for constitution as well.

The result after a couple of days is:

Strength: 20,010 (+10,000)
Dexterity: 20,010 (+10,000)
Constitution: 20,010 (+10,000)
Intelligence: 20,010 (+10,000)
Wisdom: 20,010 (+10,000)
Charisma: 20,010 (+10,000)

Yowza!

Alright, so Pun-pun and his psicrystal are stronger, more agile, tougher, smarter, wiser, and more charismatic than any other being in the planes. But wait, there is more.

According to the Monster Manual, all Special Attacks and Qualities are either Extraordinary, Spell-like, or Supernatural abilities. Manipulate Form can grant any of these. As such, Pun-pun is assumed to have any ability that is beneficial to him or makes him more threatening as an opponent. Just to list a few:

- The ability to cast spells as a 29th level Cleric and a 38th level Sorcerer and as a 20th level caster of any other casting class (such as Warmage or Druid).
- The ability to ignore spells that check against Spell Resistance, as well as ignoring any damage from weapons, or being immune to death effects/mind-affecting effects/etc...
- All spells as spell-like abilities at-will and all powers as psi-like abilities at-will.

Also, Feats are extraordinary abilities, meaning Pun-pun can have any feat he wants. So, Pun-pun is assumed to have any feat he needs, or all of them.

Further, he has all class/prestige class abilities available. For instance:

- Pun-pun can add Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma to his damage rolls with an Elven Courtblade (which he has the proficiency for since he has every feat).
- Pun-pun has Skill Mastery in every skill.
- Pun-pun has Divine Grace, as well as Improved Evasion and Improved Mettle.
- Favored Enemy (all)

Basically, Pun-pun is assumed to have any ability that helps defend against attacks or makes him immune to attacks, as well as any ability that aids him in combat, with casting, and with skill checks. With all this at hand, Pun-pun is stronger than any other build out there.

Out-Hulking the Hurler: The Hurler's damage is based off of his medium load, which is based on this equation: 533 X (4^15) X 24 Colossal X 2 Natural Heavyweight. Assuming Pun-pun increased his size to Colossal, had the Hulking Hurler's relevant abilities, and granted himself 2 extra legs, Pun-pun's medium load would be: 66 x(4^2000) x24 x2. I haven't calculated that yet, but I am pretty sure it is way bigger than the Hulking Hurler's. Anyone want to give it a shot?

Pimp-Slapping the King of Smack: The King of Smack has a lot of attacks, and his claw attacks do insane damage. But Pun-pun can do more. Pun-pun can grant himself any number of tentacle attacks by altering his body with Manipulate Form. Further, he can grant himself any feat he wants. Meaning, Pun-pun can grant himself 15 pairs of Tentacle attacks, and grant himself Improved Rapidstrike for each pair. That is 6 attacks/pair of tentacles, or 90 attacks/round. That beats out the King of Smack right there, and Pun-pun doesn't have to worry about Dispels. Pun-pun obviously deals more damage due to his insane ability scores.

Swindling the Cheater of Mystra The Cheater of Mystra's greatest strength comes from her ability to cast spells as supernatural abilities 4/day. Pun-pun can cast any spell as a spell-like ability at-will. Although spell-like abilities are not supernatural, they both share the only relevant trait; neither requires XP components. Further, Pun-pun accomplishes his superior game-breaking abilities one level before the Cheater of Mystra. Go kobolds!

Other builds or records:

Nano-bots: The Nano-bot build adds insane modifiers to checks by getting hundreds (I think) of creatures to use the Aid Another action. The creatures are all of small enough size to fit in your square or adjacent to you (not sure which). Pun-pun already beats the Nano-bot record (as well as any other Skill check record) by virtue of his ability scores alone. However, Pun-pun has a couple of other tricks up his sleeves to really make him the greatest skill-monkey around. Pun-pun can grant himself the Moment of Clarity ability from the Void Disciple to gain a number of ranks in any skill equal to the modifier of the relevant ability score. Meaning, Pun-pun adds 10,000 ranks to any skill he wants to use, as well as the +10,000 from whatever ability score he is using. Also, Pun-pun can take 10 on any skill check, even if distracted. Imagine the traps this little kobold can make... in an instant... when threatened.

Most Damage in a Melee Attack: As it stands, Pun-pun can pretty much beat the current record, held by Otto the Bugbear at 34224, just by swinging his sword. With an Elven Courtblade, Pun-pun gets Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma to damage (Champ of CL, Swashbuckler, Shiba Protector, Divine MIght). With his ability scores, this is d10+55,000 (1.5 strength). But I thought I would be a bit more creative. Enter Pun-pun... uh...-san... Emperor of Rokugan.

Pun-pun-san made his way to Rokugan and granted himself the techniques used by the many Iaijutsu masters found there. With the Improved Iaijutsu Focus feat, Pun-pun's Iaijustsu Focus skill check is un-capped (the feat is here). So...

Pun-pun-san uses Bellflower to add +10,000 to his Charisma. He then uses Moment of Clarity to add ranks in Iaijutsu Focus eqaul to his new Charisma Modifier (+15,000). So, Pun-pun takes 10, and gets 10+15,000 (ranks)+15,000 (charisma) for a check of 30,010. That result adds 6000d6 points of damage to Pun-pun's attack. Not bad. Then, Pun-pun-san uses Strike from the Void to add his charisma modifier to EACH extra die of damage gained from his Iaijutsu Focus check. That's 15,000 x 6000. Pun-pun-san's damage would look like this:

d10+55,000+6,000d6+90,000,000

Average damage is 90,073,005. Pun-pun-san's rule in Rokugan pretty much goes uncontested.

Most Spells Fired in One Round: I have seen Disposable_Hero's Nova threads, but I don't quite understand them fully. I do know however that Pun-pun has some advantages. Pun-pun can add limbs to his body. Couple this with the SpellWeaver's Spell Weaving ability, and you can cast a lot of spells in 1 round. Further, from my understanding, DH's build couldn't actually cast that many spells in a day, let alone a round. Pun-pun has a modifier of 10,000, meaning he has the bonus spells to actually pull the stunt off. And finally, if casting as a Warmage... Pun-pun adds his Intelligence modifier to damage. Meaning he can use Spell Weaving to get off as many 1st level Orb spells as possible, and still deal tremendous damage. Anyone want to take a crack at this? It isn't my forte.

Speed: The current record is 2,238 m/p/h. Pun-pun beats this one rather simply. He grants himself the Rokugan Ninja's ability that increases his base speed. It adds a bonus equal to 5x the Consitution modifier. That gets Pun-pun a speed of 50,030. I calculate this to be around 5,688 m/p/h.

The other records are not too difficult to beat. He beats the AC record automatically by virtue of his Dexterity alone, not including his ability to add Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma to AC. He beats the Highest Possible Attribute record... by a lot. He has all feats, so that beats the current record of 43. I'm not sure about the number of attacks in one round. I assume that Pun-pun can beat it, but I am not exactly sure how it works.

Now, I know it may seem rather cheezy to try and beat the other builds at their own game, sometimes by using the same abilities they do. Saying Pun-pun out-damages the Hulking Hurler is almost like saying anyone with Festering Anger cheeze out-damages the Hulking Hurler. However... Pun-pun doesn't only beat the Hulking Hurler, he beats EVERYONE. So I figured it was worth noting. A 12th level Kobold demolishes anything in his way, and can withstand anything thrown at him. He is not only the strongest character ever, but he is also the most versatile. And he is only level 12.

I think Pun-pun qualifies for the 100^10 CO Challenge, as well as the Twice-Betrayer of Shar Challenge . And the ECL 60 Defeat a Pantheon Challenge. Speaking of which...

Since Salient Divine Abilities are Special Attacks, and therefore within the limits of the abilities that the Manipulate Form ability can grant... Pun-pun is assumed to have all of them. He also has Divine Rank 0, since it is a special quality of the Abominations. I just need to figure out a way to get a higher Divine Rank, so Pun-pun can become the over-deity he deserves to be. Note that Alter Reality may make increasing ability scores even easier.

I think that is everything. All thoughts, questions, critiques appreciated.

EDIT: The buffing time just went down dramatically thanks to DisposableHero. Here is how it works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DisposableHero
Give him the metamind's font of power ability
Give him time stop at will
Have the initial build have synchronicity and twin power.

Once this is all in place (it takes 2 rounds I believe) do the following:

Activate the font:

1) Twin Synchronicity
2) Twin Synchronicity (using one of the readied actions)
3) Time Stop - during this, refocus on rounds one and two, then wait for any additional rounds twiddling your thumbs.
4) do something cool (standard action)
5) go to 1

when this is done you have two readied standard actions (one to do what you want, one to start the loop again) and have spent no power points, not lost any focuses, nor used any abilities that are not at will. In this fashion you gain infinite actions, with which to do all of your power ups in the span of 6 seconds. Repeating this later will give you the ability to cast an infinite number of spells, manifest and infinite number of powers, pick your nose an infinite number of times, or any other "within 6 seconds" record you would like to break with your kobold monstrosity. It also shortens his powerup time from days upon days, to a mere 18 seconds (2 prep, one infinite actions)


So, basically, as soon as Pun-pun learns about the power of the Sarruhks, he becomes infinitely powerful.


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 Oggetto del messaggio:
MessaggioInviato: mer feb 21, 2007 13:45 
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Iscritto il: dom dic 11, 2005 15:44
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ci sono un paio di passaggi che mi sono poco chiari, forse a causa della lingua e del fatto che non conosco questo Sarruhk... :?
ma la sostanza è chiarissima: è praticamente come giocare ad un videogame inserendo codici e trucchi, così ti si sblocca tutto, tu sei invincibile, tutti ti vengono contro ma nessuno ti ammazza...all'inizio può essere bello ma poi ti stufi! :roll:

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